Speaking of turbos... sneak preview

[Guinney1971]

I agree Dan, I'm more interested in supercharging Flopsy - if I do decide
to increase the power - as I dont like turbo lag, and most experts,
including Darren Bowker, are of the opinion that PRV's dont take turbo-ing
well at all. The Mercedes 'Kompressor' engines are basically
supercharged, and they drive fantastically, with instant acceleration when
you hit the loud pedal

I'm in two minds though, because if I increase the power, I've then got
to spend oodles of cash uprating the brakes, suspension, probably the
clutch again..... and it wont make the car worth any more :? Plus the
insurance will go up......

I think keeping the power around the 170-200bhp level will keep the car
useable and *reasonably* safe to drive, but anything more and, for me,
it wont be a DeLorean anymore - and I might as well go out and get a
Lotus Esprit, which was actually designed and engineered to take the power.

Just my 2pth :wink:

[stunned_monkey]

I thought there were rules on this forum against personal attacks?

Ref the alpine forum - check again who does the "rubbing" and by all means use Dave G instead of me (or whoever) for your parts and engine work. See how far you get....

Also Tony, you might like to register and tell Dave all about your turbocharged odd-fire and how well it runs.

[Rottbott]

A DeLorean isn't so different from an Esprit. After all in the original design it was intended to have considerably more power than it actually ended up with!

My brake/suspension upgrades to go with this project have been:

Redstuff brake pads (£95 from Powerstop)
New rear discs, master cylinder and servo (all needed doing anyway)
New front springs -- hopefully stiffer than my current ones (€150)
Polyurethane trailing arm bushes (€190... needed doing anyway but it seemed worth paying extra for the poly ones)
Polyurethane front anti-roll bar bushings (€24 I think) -- these can make a big difference in getting the braking straight


I think those pads are the ones you had on your car when you drove me in it Dan? Your brakes were fantastic.

[stunned_monkey]

...and Toby Tabs

[Daniel Shane]

Rottbott Wrote:A DeLorean isn't so different from an Esprit. After all in the original design it was intended to have considerably more power than it actually ended up with!

My brake/suspension upgrades to go with this project have been:

Redstuff brake pads (£95 from Powerstop)
New rear discs, master cylinder and servo (all needed doing anyway)
New front springs -- hopefully stiffer than my current ones (€150)
Polyurethane trailing arm bushes (€190... needed doing anyway but it seemed worth paying extra for the poly ones)
Polyurethane front anti-roll bar bushings (€24 I think) -- these can make a big difference in getting the braking straight


I think those pads are the ones you had on your car when you drove me in it Dan? Your brakes were fantastic.

Hi Rob,

When Lotus moved from the NA engines to Turbos they reworked the whole front suspension. They did things like box in and triangulate the lower control arms, Replaced the hubs and uprights, change ball joints and replaced ARB mountings. The Deloreans Chassis is more like a Lotus Elite/Eclat than an Esprits one.

Dan

[Daniel Shane]

Claire Usher Wrote:and I might as well go out and get a
Lotus Esprit, which was actually designed and engineered to take the power.

Go On, You know you want too :wink:

Dan

[Daniel Shane]

Rottbott Wrote:I think those pads are the ones you had on your car when you drove me in it Dan? Your brakes were fantastic.

Yes they were rob, But I only paid £62 for them direct from EBC. However I had a new Master Cylinder, Stainless lines and I had rebuilt my front callipers myself.

However if you just stamp on the brakes the reds will lock up the wheels and you will just slide, you need to modulate the pedal for best effect. Not cadence braking but instead use threshold braking.

The quickest and cheapest way to increase any cars performance is to improve the driver

Dan

[Guinney1971]

Daniel Shane Wrote:

Claire Usher Wrote:and I might as well go out and get a
Lotus Esprit, which was actually designed and engineered to take the power.

Go On, You know you want too :wink:

Dan

lol I think the Astra is quite pokey enough for me at the moment :wink:

However, if I ever do take the plung into Lotus ownership, I'll know where
to come for a lesson in how to drive a car fast and be able to control it

[Tourettes Tony]

stunned_monkey Wrote:I thought there were rules on this forum against personal attacks?

.

Also Tony, you might like to register and tell Dave all about your turbocharged odd-fire and how well it runs.

well i would but i dont really care martin, and as for personal attacks i only say what i think and if i offend then to be honest i dont care about that either, democracy i love it luv TT :wink:

[Rottbott]

Daniel Shane Wrote:

Rottbott Wrote:I think those pads are the ones you had on your car when you drove me in it Dan? Your brakes were fantastic.

However if you just stamp on the brakes the reds will lock up the wheels and you will just slide, you need to modulate the pedal for best effect. Not cadence braking but instead use threshold braking.

The quickest and cheapest way to increase any cars performance is to improve the driver :D
Dan

I've been practicing braking for some time with my old brakes. I enjoy it almost as much as accelerating. :-)

[David Gentleman]

Chris Hawes Wrote:For me, it was important to have the best production PRV ever built as a basis for my conversion as it is/was an established platform to work from. This model is a 3L 12V low compression engine and PERFECT for supercharging or turbo(s). I would have considered the 24V but they had an inherent weakness in the design and VERY expensive to put right. I also like the story that surrounds this particular engine i.e. it was from a 55k mile concours car that Clarkson smashed up (muppet).

As the ECU will be another £600 plus the many other bits that I'll need plus the time it will take to put together and map etc I'll be surprised if I have the money to start the conversion before Eurotec. At least I have the engine, ready and waiting....

Hello fans :lol:

Well technically, the nat asp Z7X is better. As its got hydraulic hardware, it has better lift, far less rackety on the heads and the inlet and exhaust valves are slightly larger.

Now with the compression issue, 7.6 is very low for supercharging. Depending what blower your using (I would expect a centrifugal unit), you probably know the boost pressure rises with revs, so you could have a couple of psi gain for every 1000rpm. The issue is the old A610 made 11-14psi by 2800rpm, so a nice big kick. On your system, you will only probably be seeing 4-5psi by 3k, hence why compression is a key factor.

[TheOriginalMrP]

Rob....

I think the mod's that Dan's refering to have been done to my car too by previous owner ChrisS, maybe he'll know, if not, ask ChrisS yourself. He's always trying to get me to do engine upgrade stuff, and seems confident the rest of the setup could take it, I don't know about turbo's though. The brakes are spot on, and the suspension is all adjustable too, all control arms etc rebuilt on the front end I believe. No poly bushes were used, but NOS are as good as any. I may change them in years to come.

Hope your engine work is going well. My car's having surgery tomorrow due to it re-gurgitating all the clutch fluid out of the resevoir onto the floor after having the clutch changed last week!

Ben

[Daniel Shane]

David Gentleman Wrote:Hello fans :lol:

Hi David,

Glad to see another new member on here

Dan

[Guinney1971]

David Gentleman Wrote:

Chris Hawes Wrote:For me, it was important to have the best production PRV ever built as a basis for my conversion as it is/was an established platform to work from. This model is a 3L 12V low compression engine and PERFECT for supercharging or turbo(s). I would have considered the 24V but they had an inherent weakness in the design and VERY expensive to put right. I also like the story that surrounds this particular engine i.e. it was from a 55k mile concours car that Clarkson smashed up (muppet).

As the ECU will be another £600 plus the many other bits that I'll need plus the time it will take to put together and map etc I'll be surprised if I have the money to start the conversion before Eurotec. At least I have the engine, ready and waiting....

Hello fans :lol:

Well technically, the nat asp Z7X is better. As its got hydraulic hardware, it has better lift, far less rackety on the heads and the inlet and exhaust valves are slightly larger.

Now with the compression issue, 7.6 is very low for supercharging. Depending what blower your using (I would expect a centrifugal unit), you probably know the boost pressure rises with revs, so you could have a couple of psi gain for every 1000rpm. The issue is the old A610 made 11-14psi by 2800rpm, so a nice big kick. On your system, you will only probably be seeing 4-5psi by 3k, hence why compression is a key factor.

Interesting reading David (welcome to the forum btw ) - so basically, the DeLorean version of the PRV in 'standard' form isnt much cop for turboing or supercharging ?

Thats good to know, because if thats the case I'm not gonna waste oodles of cash bolting stuff onto my existing 80,000 mile engine to then not see much benefit.

Anyway, if you go too fast in a De, its less chance for people to admire your car :wink: :lol:

Cheers,

[David Gentleman]

Honestly, none of the PRV's are anygood for anything really, compared to more modern designs (Ie less than 20 years old)

In the GTA's, the 160bhp atmo engine which runs crappy old carbs is a fun car to drive, and Ive seen nigh on 180bhp on my own car just with rejetting the carbs, uprating the fuel pressure with a decent pump and adjustable regulator, putting a better exhaust on (still standard manifolds) and advancing the timing. Much more punchy midrange.

And look at the power curve, you couldnt draw much better..



If you want nearer 200bhp, and purism isnt a problem, then even a standard late 3.0 Laguna engine will do nigh on that with decent manifolds and exhaust. They make 170 out of the box with cats still installed and standard production car exhaust system. You still need to throw in an ECU to the mix though, due to them not coming with manual flywheels so you can't use the original Lag brain.

You can get round it though, if you can source a manual PRV flywheel for an even fire, and use a old R25 V6 ECU (1988-1991model). These can be remapped up north for around £400 for your spec, or I do a reprogrammable chip for the same ecu, supplied with software and programming lead so you can adjust fueling and timing your self, but its as basic as it comes, and tedious to use.

These are £200 engines, plentiful on Ebay, quiet with hydraulic tappets, and once installed with an ecu, adding a SC at a later date is not a real issue.

Turbo wise, these engines are a whole can of worms. Technically, the Z7U engine (ie 25T) if you take the turbo off is the biggest asthmatic, poor reving low powered hunk'o'junk out there, slower than a 1.0 Clio, for real. So unless you can drop a whole lump in situ with turbo, ancils etc (which you can't) then its not really worth the bother, because if your going to need to do lots of fabrication and adding a turbo, you might as well start with something that makes some natural power in the first place. Without decent chargecooling it will make about 170-180bhp in standard form, but then be soggy off boost, and not maintain power on boost. Then theres the problem that if you ever do need to rebuild, some internals are specific to the Z7U and expensive, or unavailable. We tune the Z7Us as they are already fitted to the vehicle, so its straightforward to do, but as you need to transplant, so you might as well go for a better option to start with.

Z7X parts are cheap and plentiful.

These engines are never going to make silly power as the head and cam design is primative, so 260bhp would be a good sensible, reliable limit. Yes, they do make good torque, but so do diesels. :lol:

If you want silly power then V8, or a modern 4 pot turbo on an adaptor plate is the way to go. I personally don't know why people hang on to purity of the original engine, as on the GTA and Delorean, its not the engine that made it any good, in fact you can consider its the worst part, so with an engine swap, and while that engine cover is kept closed, to every one else the car is as original as it comes and you can enjoy going silly, and reliably fast, and with certain engine swaps, actually improve the handling.

Take this below for instance, this is a R21 Turbo engine fitted in one a GTA's. I have one of these conversions myself in a black GTA I have. The 21 uses the UN1 box, so the 4 cly bellhousing for the 21 will mate up to your gearboxes. You can get a complete 21 Turbo engine, and ECU for a few hundred notes. This will go in your car far simpler than a Z7U due to the fact of no need to relocate a turbo etc...No flywheel issues, ecu etc...You just need to fabricate engine mounts, and reroute water piping etc.



A bog standard 21T engine running around 18psi and running correctly can make over 260lb of torque and 230-240bhp. The engine is also 70kgs lighter than a V6, even the exhaust system would be far lighter too and it also makes peak torque around 2700-3000rpm like the V6T.

Horses for courses :lol: