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+--- Thread: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? (/showthread.php?tid=6414)
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First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - lordivanhoe - 11 Sep 2023
So..
Drove from High Wycombe to Shropshire this weekend and had a breakdown as I was passing through Birmingham.
Clearly, rule 1 is 'don't drive through Birmingham on the hottest day of the year at five o'clock on a Friday afternoon'..!!
However, this was my first breakdown in the car.
As I was nearly through Birmingham (frustratingly), first I heard dodgy whirring noises, then coming off a roundabout she suddenly completely died after some horrendous electricalish whirring noises.
Pretty sure this was the fuel pump having a mad five minutes.
For at least five minutes, turning the key did nothing at all.
After a few more minutes, turning the key turned over the engine (with horrendous noises) but it wouldn't fire.
After a few more minutes, she started but conked out again after going ten yards.
After another ten minutes or so (maybe 25-30 minutes all told?), during which I was on to my breakdown company, she decided to start and I completed the last 30-ish miles and hour of my journey.
So. Questions/advice please!
i/ What was going on? Is this the same as or related to the infamous 'hot start' problem I think I've heard of? Is it usual for this to also result in a breakdown? Was it (theorising here) to do with excess heat causing fuel in fuel pipes to vapourise and 'vapour lock'?
ii/ whatever the problem, does anyone have a solution? should I change my fuel pump? Any other upgrades/ mods I can do?
Further problem: On the plus side, I had my air con looked at a month or so ago and it now works. On the downside, when it's hot, the increased load of putting on the air con and the associated fans pushes the running temperature of the engine up! So when it's really hot, I ironically have to turn off the air con so as to keep the engine cool!!
so, iii/ anyone else had this problem, and did anyone find a radiator / fan / other solution that helps keep all this under control?
My biggest paranoia about running any old car is always to do with overheating.
iv/ Finally, perhaps it's just my imagination, but it seems to me that the warmer the car is, the worse the gearchange gets. Anyone else have this?
It's been a while, hope everyone's well and sorry for just bringing problems to the party..!! :-D
Cheers,
Ivanhoe (80sThrowBack...)
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rich Hanlon - 11 Sep 2023
My gut reaction is that it was probably in some way yeat-related, perhaps vaporisation in the lines etc. This is what the accumulator is meant to prevent- has this ever been changed? If not, I would make this, and the fuel lines around it, top priority.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rich Hanlon - 11 Sep 2023
Sorry for typo, 'Heat-related.'
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Derfel - 12 Sep 2023
Mine did exactly the same thing on the way back from Malvern on Saturday afternoon. Fuel pump sounded like it was gargling rocks. Even though it was only replaced 2 years ago / 1000 miles with a brand new fuel filter, think the heat and the hot fuel got to it. Still managed to limp home on the back roads.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rich Hanlon - 12 Sep 2023
Yes in a way with the fans running it blows all that waste hot air over the fuel tank and lines, so can exacerbate the problem, I think some guys in the states have experienced this. I think someone came up with an air dam thing that fits along the front frame extension and deflects the hot air away from the tank etc. There might be something on DMC talk - I'm not on there often but I think that's where I've seen it.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Guinney1971 - 12 Sep 2023
there used to be a thing years ago, with the fuel pick up hose 'collapsing' on itself
in hot weather.
We (me Phill and DickyH) did a thing on our cars which we nicknamed 'Springzilla',
and it basically involved winding some wire around a rod to make a coil or spring
long enough for the length of the pipe. Feed that rod with wire coil on up the pipe,
then withdraw the rod leaving the coiled wire spring inside.
This stops the problem. I remember going to the IOW about 20yrs ago, and #6457
doing exactly this.
I have got some pictures of when we did it on either Rich or Phill's car about 16yrs ago,
I'll see if I can upload them to here, but I've never had much joy with putting photos
on the forum.
okay, I've found the photos, so I hope these make sense.
We did this job in May 2007, and we've never had a problem
with a collapsed fuel pick up hose (which causes the fuel pump
to scream as its struggling to get fuel) since.
(First 5 pics here, rest in next post)
[attachment=1465][attachment=1466][attachment=1467][attachment=1468][attachment=1469]
[attachment=1470]
[attachment=1471]
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rissy - 12 Sep 2023
Look at those fresh young faces!
I think the biggest impact to hot fuel in the tank is the continual circulation of fuel round the circulatory system (over a hot engine and through a pump working hard in the tank) rather than any hot air being blown over the frame around the tank. Even the hot coolant pipes pressing up against the fuel tank will have a more immediate effect on the fuel heating up.
I've been quietly looking into the fitting of a fuel cooler on to my car for precisely this reason.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Chris Williams - 12 Sep 2023
Think all the common issues have been raised, modern Diesel and some petrol vehicles all have a fuel cooler installed to cool the returning fuel going back to the tank. More so diesels as the very high pressure heats the fuel. These issues seem to be far more prevalent in the US and as Rich mentioned one supplier sold a hot air dam tp try and reduce the heat (in this case from the fans) causing even more heating issues.
The spring is a great idea as the rubber pipes get softer and softer with age and heat.
Personally I have Ed's radiator and modern fans from DeLorean Industries (others available) and never have an issue with cooling. The modern fans I think are much better having far less draw on the electrical system and move far more air.
Sure you will find most of your issues disappear as we return to normal UK temps!
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Derfel - 12 Sep 2023
At an absolutely silly price - DeLorean Industries in the US produce a fuel cooler. https://deloreanindustries.com/online-store/fuel-emissions/2-1-2-electronic-fuel-injection-efi/harsh-environment-fuel-cooler-system/
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Guinney1971 - 12 Sep 2023
(12 Sep 2023, 19:55)Derfel Wrote: At an absolutely silly price - DeLorean Industries in the US produce a fuel cooler. https://deloreanindustries.com/online-store/fuel-emissions/2-1-2-electronic-fuel-injection-efi/harsh-environment-fuel-cooler-system/
how much!!!!
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rissy - 13 Sep 2023
Yeah and they don’t even produce it. I found this during my researching. Spot the difference?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164007090117?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RgWYJkPnS36&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=wGUsHcmkRsW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Or if you want to be exact, and want black fittings, then how about this:
https://www.xtremediesel.com/derale-15845-19-row-hyper-cool-dual-remote-cooler-10an
It’s a bit cheeky. It’s even the same photo used from the manufacturer! Doctored a little, that’s it.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Guinney1971 - 13 Sep 2023
bloody hell, how are DI justifying charging pretty much 7x as much for it?
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Rissy - 13 Sep 2023
(13 Sep 2023, 12:39)Guinney1971 Wrote: bloody hell, how are DI justifying charging pretty much 7x as much for it?
"Tried and tested (with instructions)" probably. Hell of expensive instructions!
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Derfel - 13 Sep 2023
That's taking the mickey a bit ! If what it is simply a modified oil cooler - there are lots of potential other options out there.
RE: First Breakdown - Advice / Solutions? - Chris Williams - 13 Sep 2023
I always thought something like this would suffice: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314703960235?hash=item4945d158ab:g:81wAAOSw5opkrRTQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4OX4aAV5HX7BbTcQAMSQZPf0ZS5bSnrQ4oPhkz7xybDrnrUdZB6kyrlFnMXUpdGUWoVrUaQlBWRtnWvXQ1aR4conU4lavhWlxF37E4tbfQ6Fo3SifxJY8zA6OjBOUDKCOI87SZvExxyZfzcqRceOTvuC%2FJGbljte%2FBWSNzdpNLp5ZH%2Fjjnefg6oA6pLUYg%2B7FSgt2ywCWp8a8MjU%2FgV7ekE7rEulqFY638NcLXNXfzvglYNYWlSdNPuXWhHlD77qZoX91U%2BtbIZENDRzCbYimqMIB7aFn7yzyfhXdnegI1jK%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4aUyIHSYg
Many versions most are underneath the vehicle and work well.
(13 Sep 2023, 12:40)Rissy Wrote:(13 Sep 2023, 12:39)Guinney1971 Wrote: bloody hell, how are DI justifying charging pretty much 7x as much for it?
"Tried and tested (with instructions)" probably. Hell of expensive instructions!
Thats a bonkers mark up. like the idea though!